The five or so people who have commented in the last couple of days in defense of a particular act of incivility ("NUTS!") haven't brought these points up, but I will.
1. It would be helpful if CAIR would publish the letter it sent to Rep. Lieutenant Colonel Alan West (US Army, Retired) (R-FL). I've seen excerpts that suggest that it was a reasonable request to disassociate from the more rabid anti-Muslim forces. But maybe it got ugly and personal, in which case Rep. Lieutenant Colonel Alan West (Us Army, Retired)'s terse response would be easier to understand. What about it, CAIR? Any name-calling in there? I'm not down with goading.
2. Similarly I've read some talk (all blog commenters) insisting that CAIR is nothing but a cover organization for the Muslim Brotherhood. If this is true, rLCAWUARrfl's response might be more appropriate but now might be a very good time to offer some proof. Or at lease rLCAWUARrfl should make that connection explicit. All I've seen so far is that they're pro-Muslim, therefore they must be pro-Muslim-Brotherhood. That isn't enough for me.
Friday, August 19, 2011
A Couple of Counter Arguments
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20 comments:
1. "Anti-Muslim"? Of course you'll be able to back-up that those folks mentioned are "anti-Muslim", and not "anti-Muslim Extremeism". Big difference, you know. One being against the fronge isn't the same as being against the whole group. CAIR can't seem to make that distinction, can you? A group demanding that you not associate with folks that have been falsely labeled isn't enough to be considered "ugly and personal"?
2. Can't speak to the Muslim Brotherhood, but there certainly seem to be some connections to Hamas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American-Islamic_Relations#Criticism
Don't jump all over me man, I posted this to give you and West benefit of the doubt.
Are you serious you don't know about CAIR or just kidding?
www.anti-cair-net.org beat CAIR in a defamation suit CAIR brought against them.
http://www.danielpipes.org/3511/cair-backs-down-from-anti-cair
CAIR was proven beyond a doubt to be created for HAMAS by Muslim Brotherhood members, Hamas operatives & supporters during the HLF trial.
http://www.anti-cair-net.org/FBItiesCAIRHamas
Is it illegal to create such a group? No. After all, Americans supported the IRA.
But exposing CAIR's supremacist wishes for America and who they support (HAMAS & the MB) certainly is allowed and should be hailed as a very good thing. And so is pointing out the terrorism supporting activities either legal, "illegal", or immoral that CAIR engages in, as well as pointing out CAIR officials that have been convicted of terrorism activity.
Anyone who is really being honest will look thoroughly and plainly at the evidence the FBI gathered through wiretaps and presented at the HLF trial and see that the Founders of CAIR created CAIR simply to advance the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood and support HAMAS.
http://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/hlf2.html
Wow, I bet Soros is funding them! Maybe Vince Foster was going to blow the whole thing wide open before Hillary! killed him.
Sorry, that was uncivil of me. Now I think I know how Rep Alan West feels.
So you are basically dishonest and full of crap. Good to know.
I don't see how you get "dishonest" out of that. Are you implying that I actually buy that evidence but I'm pretending not to?
"Are you implying that I actually buy that evidence..."
I'm stating that you don't even have the GUTS to look at any evidence, especially the documents of FBI investigation presented in the HLF trial.
You won't even hit the link. You're an arrogant coward. I don't have to prove that, you know it's true.
"Arrogant coward" -- that's mutually exclusive! I guess it means I'm neither.
This is how it works... you try to compromise with tea party members and they immediately start with the insults and screaming.
Do you have any sources about CAIR that don't come from a website called Anti-CAIR? Because they're going to draw biased conclusions, you know.
Arrogant coward is dead on. There is no screaming or insulting. You're response to the facts on CAIR speaks volumes about your weak character.
You mock & disregard the facts as presented and refuse to investigate because you don't want to be proven wrong.
Once again, you can read all of the evidence compiled on CAIR, their founders and their fellow conspirators who were convicted (As I linked before) here: http://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/hlf2.html
That is not Anti-CAIR, thats the US Federal Court in Texas.
That's a lot of evidence, Anonymous! I'll tell you what -- if you stipulate that anyone who forms a conclusion about CAIR without reading every page of it is an arrogant coward in your eyes, I'll go along with that. Because honestly, I don't have the time to read all those documents and CAIR isn't even on trial there.
Again, ANYONE who doesn't read all of it. Including Rep. Alan West.
It's obvious you're copping-out, feigning time issues. Not suprising.
Start with the "Philadelphia Meeting" category. Not much info at all.
http://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/hlf2.html
The Anti-CAIR article, although biased against CAIR, is 100% factual in the evidence it presents because it came directly from, and is linked to, the HLF trial evidence from the Federal Court. Be skeptical all you want, but look at the evidence. If you don't, then you are a coward plain and simple.
http://www.anti-cair-net.org/FBItiesCAIRHamas
And yes, CAIR is on trial here, and everywhere. Always.
CAIR = HAMAS
Alan West has seen the evidence against CAIR, all of it. What are you so worried about?
I'm worried that if I get into this argument about CAIR, you'll be able to sidestep the argument I WAS making, about civility.
Let's stipulate that West has seen all the evidence and knows CAIR is staffed by terrorists. Your position is that it's okay to be rude and dismissive to constituents if you think they have it coming?
"Your position is that it's okay to be rude and dismissive to constituents if you think they have it coming?"
My position is that it's absolutely okay and praiseworthy for West and any other politician (Schumer & Boxer to a lesser degree) to speak out and expose, ridicule, belittle, marginalize, investigate, convict (if possible), and make miserable the members, supporters, and enablers of a terrorist-supporting organization that uses a religion and our tolerant attitude as a nation to advance their perverted fascist ideology and give support to those who commit murder and mayhem in the name of a religion - as CAIR does for HAMAS, Hizballah, and other militant Islamists each and everyday.
How do you feel about Joe Biden? He quoted someone who called the Republicans "terrorists" for holding the debt ceiling vote hostage.
Irrelevant. I could care less.
Alan West sent the terrorist-supporters of CAIR a very specific F-U to make a point that he won't be intimidated or entertain the demands of a group that was co-founded by a terrorist who fled this country to escape imprisonment, staffed by terrorists who have been convicted, and infested by staff and members who support terrorists who wish to do Americans harm to this day.
Please Dan, and I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but I am being blunt. It's a waste of time and energy to embarrass yourself by creating useless equivocations. I suspect you have a little more honesty in that heart of yours than this. I understand that exposing CAIR's terrorism origins puts into jeopardy your argument that West is "attacking Muslims" or "constituents" - but he is absolutely not. West knows Nezar Hamze and Hassan Shibly of CAIR very well and is simply slapping back CAIR's outrageous BS. CAIR does not represent Muslims, they rep only HAMAS and their fellow fascists who use Islam to spread their vile and oppressive political and militant ideology.
That is a big, huge, vast, difference than the meme that people are trying to create, and you give lip service to. That of Alan West being "uncivil".
Brother, please.
It's great that you have a justification for all this stuff but why isn't West talking?
Why should he? He said all that needs to be said.
It's quite sad that many Americans have forgotten our History and can't pick up on just what his response to CAIR means.
Well that's just putting lipstick on a pig.
More like hitting the nail on the head.
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